I think a large part of the hatred of India comes from a disdain towards lower socioeconomic classes. A lot of the things people hate about India are attributes exclusive to people who are poor, uneducated, and powerless (lower caste). I mean, if you don't have running plumbing, where the hell else are you gonna shit?
We generally hate all people who are poor, I mean how on Earth is "Africans don't have food" a joke? Like regardless of its truth, how is that even a joke? HAHA you're poor and suffering LOSER!
We have great contempt towards Indians because they're so poor, but ironically they're a growing superpower. We don't really hate Ethiopians because the country of Ethiopia isn't as powerful in a Western lens.
There's also the great disparity between India's top and bottom. Culturally, ambition, boldness, and achievement are well-respected attributes, so you have a very strong academic workforce, similar to China, but India doesn't have an economy to capitalize on that talent that China does. If you're a well-educated Chinese you can get a job in a Chinese industry, but if you're an Indian genius, it's way more profitable to go to America than stay in India. That creates a great brain drain that handicaps India, but also creates a massive influx of talented, driven Indians who are more attractive to business owners than domestic talent. Even if the Indians aren't talented, they can compete on wages, because western society is so much more luxurious than back home, they'll accept slave wages.
I think there's a variety of features that make Indian hatred so strong. First, there's a strong sense of colourism—we hate Indian's dark skin more than say a Chinese person. Moreover, there's the great diversity in India, so you can mutate your stereotype of an Indian to whatever you want by accessing any attribute. Indians can be both hyper-driven and lazy, meek and loud, uncivilized and overeducated.
I think people need a punching bag, and India has been perfect for that because of their great visibility (compared to China, which has been more insular) and because it's less popular to punch down on Black people or East-Asians any more, Indians are a perfect punching bag because they're the newest entry to the American hegemony.
I think it'll be only a few more years before liberals start to consider Indian hatred an actionable problem, but that will only occur as more South-Asians get accepted into the voting bloc, and even then it'll be an uphill battle.
Thanks for the comment, Wasay. I think you're right to bring up class as the key lens we can view this through. That really applies to a lot of relationships between the developed world and the global south. Speaks to a certain chauvinism. We can feel better about exploiting the labor and natural resources of these poor regions of the world if we think of their inhabitants as dull and undeserving.
Definitely. They're in the same genre at least. I think the key difference is the character of the nation itself. Obviously there's a lot of China hate online but you have more positive portrayals as well, especially in the areas of national infrastructure and online culture. Even the China Hawks (the less rabid ones at least) seem to regard it with some respect.
Yeah, I mean it’s certainly different and stems more from people’s ambient understanding of their governments. People love to yell about the Chinese government even when they are doing something fairly reasonable that westerners just don’t have the context for. Then that extends to complaining about Chinese tourists or claiming “Confucianism has made Chinese people blindly follow authority” (just saw that discourse on r/China this week). Meanwhile people in the west don’t seem to have any problems with the Indian government despite its myriad of problems, and their attitude toward Indians seems to be one of condescension, like “oh those poor people trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps to escape the caste system.”
I’ll admit these thoughts might be coming from a personal experience visiting a relative a few weeks ago who spent the whole time glowingly praising the local Indian culture but was hyper-critical of Chinese culture whenever it came up. It was weird.
I would disagree that China Hawks respect Chinese infrastructure developments though- they love to point at the Chinese style of development where buildings are left unfinished for long periods of times, and they’ll claim the new infrastructure is all flimsy and dangerous. Obviously it’s cope since the US infrastructure development has been stagnant for decades now.
fucking tremendous article. i've noticed a growing increase in disdain towards indians from friends, but I'm just unable to articulate how sinister their disdain really is. but you do an amazing job of explaining this whole phenomenon.
indian culture has somehow, in its isolation, developed into the antithesis of 99% of every other countries cultural values. impressive in and of itself
What’s telling to me is that second Gen Indians who are culturally indistinguishable from US raised children do not have these problems. Knew many of these types of guys in high school and people loved them, but their parents always came off as complete assholes from the stories you’d hear.
1) hothouse cram school Asian culture that has proven to be a failure.
Asia has way lower gdp per capita (and not just China, the ones that have been capitalist a long time). OECD highest suicide rate. Apocalypse level TFR. Basically, Asian failed modernity.
At an aesthetic level, Vivek tweet example of worst thing to adopt as your elite culture.
2) India isn’t even East Asia.
India has average iq of 76. At least East Asians are high iq.
Canada, uk, and Australia all imported infinite paneers the last decade and turns out quantity up = quality down. Talent stack isn’t deep enough.
India is caste society with low social trust and high corruption. Importing that bad for society and bad for the Indian immigrant brand.
Indians west today would be smart to pull up ladder behind them.
yes, it's so annoying especially hearing the disdain and fetishization against Indian women like the whole "great shift" makes me wanna rip my hair out
I think a large part of the hatred of India comes from a disdain towards lower socioeconomic classes. A lot of the things people hate about India are attributes exclusive to people who are poor, uneducated, and powerless (lower caste). I mean, if you don't have running plumbing, where the hell else are you gonna shit?
We generally hate all people who are poor, I mean how on Earth is "Africans don't have food" a joke? Like regardless of its truth, how is that even a joke? HAHA you're poor and suffering LOSER!
We have great contempt towards Indians because they're so poor, but ironically they're a growing superpower. We don't really hate Ethiopians because the country of Ethiopia isn't as powerful in a Western lens.
There's also the great disparity between India's top and bottom. Culturally, ambition, boldness, and achievement are well-respected attributes, so you have a very strong academic workforce, similar to China, but India doesn't have an economy to capitalize on that talent that China does. If you're a well-educated Chinese you can get a job in a Chinese industry, but if you're an Indian genius, it's way more profitable to go to America than stay in India. That creates a great brain drain that handicaps India, but also creates a massive influx of talented, driven Indians who are more attractive to business owners than domestic talent. Even if the Indians aren't talented, they can compete on wages, because western society is so much more luxurious than back home, they'll accept slave wages.
I think there's a variety of features that make Indian hatred so strong. First, there's a strong sense of colourism—we hate Indian's dark skin more than say a Chinese person. Moreover, there's the great diversity in India, so you can mutate your stereotype of an Indian to whatever you want by accessing any attribute. Indians can be both hyper-driven and lazy, meek and loud, uncivilized and overeducated.
I think people need a punching bag, and India has been perfect for that because of their great visibility (compared to China, which has been more insular) and because it's less popular to punch down on Black people or East-Asians any more, Indians are a perfect punching bag because they're the newest entry to the American hegemony.
I think it'll be only a few more years before liberals start to consider Indian hatred an actionable problem, but that will only occur as more South-Asians get accepted into the voting bloc, and even then it'll be an uphill battle.
Thanks for the comment, Wasay. I think you're right to bring up class as the key lens we can view this through. That really applies to a lot of relationships between the developed world and the global south. Speaks to a certain chauvinism. We can feel better about exploiting the labor and natural resources of these poor regions of the world if we think of their inhabitants as dull and undeserving.
I think a lot of this could apply to American’s view of Chinese people as well.
Definitely. They're in the same genre at least. I think the key difference is the character of the nation itself. Obviously there's a lot of China hate online but you have more positive portrayals as well, especially in the areas of national infrastructure and online culture. Even the China Hawks (the less rabid ones at least) seem to regard it with some respect.
Yeah, I mean it’s certainly different and stems more from people’s ambient understanding of their governments. People love to yell about the Chinese government even when they are doing something fairly reasonable that westerners just don’t have the context for. Then that extends to complaining about Chinese tourists or claiming “Confucianism has made Chinese people blindly follow authority” (just saw that discourse on r/China this week). Meanwhile people in the west don’t seem to have any problems with the Indian government despite its myriad of problems, and their attitude toward Indians seems to be one of condescension, like “oh those poor people trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps to escape the caste system.”
I’ll admit these thoughts might be coming from a personal experience visiting a relative a few weeks ago who spent the whole time glowingly praising the local Indian culture but was hyper-critical of Chinese culture whenever it came up. It was weird.
I would disagree that China Hawks respect Chinese infrastructure developments though- they love to point at the Chinese style of development where buildings are left unfinished for long periods of times, and they’ll claim the new infrastructure is all flimsy and dangerous. Obviously it’s cope since the US infrastructure development has been stagnant for decades now.
fucking tremendous article. i've noticed a growing increase in disdain towards indians from friends, but I'm just unable to articulate how sinister their disdain really is. but you do an amazing job of explaining this whole phenomenon.
Thank you boss. Much obliged for the sub. Will do what I can to maintain the established standard of "fucking tremendous."
Great article!
Thanks boss. Appreciate the sub. Happy to have you along for the ride.
indian culture has somehow, in its isolation, developed into the antithesis of 99% of every other countries cultural values. impressive in and of itself
What’s telling to me is that second Gen Indians who are culturally indistinguishable from US raised children do not have these problems. Knew many of these types of guys in high school and people loved them, but their parents always came off as complete assholes from the stories you’d hear.
TLDR.
There are two reasons people hate Indians.
1) hothouse cram school Asian culture that has proven to be a failure.
Asia has way lower gdp per capita (and not just China, the ones that have been capitalist a long time). OECD highest suicide rate. Apocalypse level TFR. Basically, Asian failed modernity.
At an aesthetic level, Vivek tweet example of worst thing to adopt as your elite culture.
2) India isn’t even East Asia.
India has average iq of 76. At least East Asians are high iq.
Canada, uk, and Australia all imported infinite paneers the last decade and turns out quantity up = quality down. Talent stack isn’t deep enough.
India is caste society with low social trust and high corruption. Importing that bad for society and bad for the Indian immigrant brand.
Indians west today would be smart to pull up ladder behind them.
Have you heard oof black people
yes, it's so annoying especially hearing the disdain and fetishization against Indian women like the whole "great shift" makes me wanna rip my hair out